I’m not „spouting” anything – if you call me friend at the end why treat me as an enemy?… Always present truth in charity. I try, I’m fallible, but I keep trying. The devil is the one that breeds conflicts, I was clear on that one. You keep not understanding the authority though. Jesus established the Church, and He gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us to the whole Truth – you probably know the verses – the fact that people don’t follow that truth is another matter. Do you not see? All the examples you gave on how authority “fails” in the Catholic Church are misplaced – the fact that people are sinners and do their own thing doesn’t mean the Church is wrong in its teachings. It’s like saying that Apostoles where wrong because one of them betrayed Jesus. And besides, if you know Steve Ray and really listened to him with open mind and read his books, and still disagree with him, there’s nothing I can say that would convince you otherwise, even if I start quoting Scriptures, like John 6.
As for me, I know his conversion story, and heard him maybe a couple of times, but I prefer to listen to Trent Horn, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples and Scott Hahn. And yet, most of why I even listened to them, was not for the reasons you think – I was never a Protestant, never even met one (I met an ex-Protestant who was later a militant atheist). I only listened to the guys above for two reasons – conversion stories, and because I was searching for some answers myself at some point. And why in English, because I enjoy that. I’m Polish, we don’t lack resources, but my degrees, including PhD are in English Philology. I am NOT a theologian. I searched for me. And if I answer some questions, it’s extremely rarely online. I learned to avoid YouTube comments long ago, mostly because of atheists, woke lefties and… yes, Catholic trads. So there – divisions everywhere, but still not of the kind you have problems with, I’ll get back to that later. I was learning stuff to defend my faith if necessary, so if I was personally accosted. And also to teach my children, so that they wouldn’t be as ignorant as I was in my childhood (though I’m sure my atheist mum had a lot to do with that).
I don’t understand what you mean by leaving your pastors out of the comments – why? You didn’t leave out priests and bishops. I mean no disrespect, but I heard countless stories – you may always verify it and listen to them yourself, and see where is it that I misrepresent them or something. As for the fact that a given pastor devoted his whole life to Jesus – I never denied any such thing. But then so do priests. And you have scandals on both sides. Just like you have sinners on both sides. We are all sinners, so why do you seem to hold that against the Catholic Church and it’s authority?
PhDs and seminaries mean little to me – I have one, it means little in my opinion… Many professors are woke, too – so for me it’s of slight importance. One may just read tons of material at home nowadays and by leading a holy life become a lot wiser than a professor who values knowledge about Jesus more than Jesus himself. Paraphrasing Thomas A’Kempis, of what use is the ability to define humility if you are not in fact humble. Or that you write a treatise on Trinity but live in sin and not care about it. I’m not saying that about anyone in particular, don’t get angry – it’s just never appealed to me. In fact, once a friend of mine was trying to persuade me about something concerning our faith and giving me a link to a priest where it started with the fact that he had three PhDs – for me that was instantly turning me off – since when is that an argument in the matters of faith? Were the Apostoles not fishermen too? Look how the Pharisees and those that knew their Scriptures best in the time of Jesus – how they reacted to Jesus?
You also claim that the pastors were given their office by Christ. Here’s what you said: “Protestant churches are characterized by authoritative governance. Within congregational churches, for example, pastors/elders exercise their office with the authority delegated to them by Jesus Christ, the head of the church.” I beg to disagree. Jesus established one Church, Peter got the keys to the Kingdom, and power to absolve people from sins. Read the Gospels and the Acts closely, then Church Fathers – it’s all there. We have the Apostolic succession – the Protestant churches do not. What you wrote there about is not a fact, it’s a belief.
Same with this: “Scripture possesses magisterial (leading) authority for Protestant churches, while tradition possesses ministerial (serving) authority. Whereas Scripture enjoys ultimate authority, tradition enjoys presumptive authority: given the fact that it is grounded on Scripture, rightly summarizes Scripture, and has been cherished by the church from the beginning, tradition is to be regarded as a true secondary authority until proven wrong.”
This is wrong because you claim the Authority to be in the Bible, which again, is not biblical, Sola Scriptura has long fallen… How can you say it has ultimate authority in Protestantism and have conflicting doctrines in your world? And the church from the beginning – which church, which beginning? Do you now talk of 40000 Protestant denominations? Or the Catholic Church, as that is the only one that was there at the very beginning? And for almost 4 centuries there was NO New Testament! Please dwell on that. And look up in your Bible – what is “the pillar and bulwark of truth”?
Even „until proven wrong” doesn’t hold in your world. When one pastor is proven “wrong” then you just split…
One more thing, just as you look at sinners in the Catholic Church and disbelievers in the Eucharist to dismiss my Church or my faith – it’s again like looking at Judas to dismiss the Apostles. So why don’t you read up on the Saints of the Catholic Church. I’m not saying to pray to them or whatever – just biographies and how they lived and loved and what THEY believed. Are all mothers bad, because some yell and beat the kids or abandon them? Are all men bad because some are rapists? Look up the saints, and Eucharistic miracles, read the Catechism and not surveys on parishioners. It’s like I asked a Seventh Day Adventists about what they believed and applied this to all of your denominations, such as Assemblies of God or Methodists, Baptists etc.
After all the Bible doesn’t interpret itself. And as for not all verses being interpreted – that’s a weird argument, it doesn’t prove anything. In the second century there was only the Catholic Church, but there was no New Testament, the Bible wasn’t canonized yet – so they had no teaching authority because the Bible was not interpreted then?
And be honest – do you want Protestantism to be judged by the worst or the best of you? 🙂 I often defend your faith and Protestants when I talk to my husband – it exasperates him sometimes 😉 And it is because he looks mostly at what the Protestantism did to Christianity and he’s more of a historian, so he looks at the roots of the reformation. Me, I look mostly at what is here and now, and how God works in all places, including your megachurches. At how you evangelize – how people come to Christ thanks to you, because God works through you and in you as well. But I want them to come all the way to the Church that Jesus established and left us, and most of all to the Eucharist. I’d gladly die for the Truth that He is present in the Eucharist. And all they guys I listened to (as far as ex-Protestants are concerned) also say a lot of good about their protestant roots. So no need to get mad at me. I love you, and I’ll pray for you. I see that you already know where to look for answers, so I need not add much. And there are people, podcasts to go to. And the Catechism, to know what the Church teaches, and not what parishioners believe.
This argument with bad witnessing (goes both ways too), is not an issue of authority, but precisely the bad witnessing. People are sometimes born into a church tradition and not being formed in the faith, and then the world and the devil work on everyone as well. So many young people go astray everywhere. I watched conversion to Christianity (Protestant version) too, and sometimes we’re talking of born and raised Protestant, just lukewarm and swayed by secularism in their early teenage years. The culture of death, the antichristian propaganda, is everywhere now. And so you get people in both mine and your faith traditions that don’t do what Jesus says. It’s always been like that, and always will be. That’s why we need our Savior. The Church is like hospital for the sinners, and there are many sick people in it. When the Bible clearly condemns sodomy, it’s not only German bishops who claim something that the Church does NOT teach – so are many liberal Protestant churches. And since you place authority in the Bible – would you logically conclude like you did for the Catholic Church that the authority is not working, doesn’t exist or admit, that the meaning to have authority over something doesn’t equal exerting it? Because the Church, like Jesus, says X, Y and Z are wrong don’t do that – but it doesn’t force you and physically prevent you from doing those things. We all have free will and the burden of original sin and corrupted natures to deal with. And we fight against the devil and his tricks.
Or in a simple statement – The Bible is our authority. For me only the Catholic Church can interpret it infallibly, which doesn’t mean God doesn’t speak through it to everyone, individually and personally. Now, take an atheist who makes fun of it, or a believer, on both our sides, who simply disagrees with a part of it, like on sodomy or on the fact the evil is personal (as opposed to metaphorical) – does that make the Bible less of an authority to you? No? Then don’t say that the Catholic Church doesn’t have authority based on the fact that people sin, or pridefully think they know better than the Bible or the Church (that includes bishops, priests and pastors).
There’s another thing – see why I don’t like commenting on YT… You wrote about all those who disagree with the Church’s teaching or doctrines (I exclude those that agree but fail in their faith, sin, get up again, ask for forgiveness and try again). As if it’s just opinions where there are verses not infallibly interpreted – there’s no problem there, not as you see it. Say a sentence “Jesus wept” – why do you think it needs to be infallibly interpreted? If you are serious about your faith, and you seem to be, as I am – then you very well know, that we only need infallible interpretation for crucial matters – like salvation, hell, heaven, baptism etc. BUT if you think that in the last 2000 years people haven’t pondered almost all of the verses from the Bible, then you’re wrong. Even f I could spend all the rest of my life reading everything that all the Catholics before me wrote on the Scriptures, I wouldn’t live long enough. Do they disagree sometimes? Yes. But not, again, on most important issues. For instance, there are unfortunately theologians in the Catholic Church that think that evil is just metaphorical, there’s no devil etc. But that’s wrong, and NOT what the Church teaches. And it doesn’t undermine the authority neither of the Church, nor of the Bible. (Like the example with atheists and the Bible). Importantly, for anyone who studies Scriptures a lot – there’s layers and layers of meaning. I keep discovering it in how it applies to my life, and it never contradicts the faith, the doctrines. What you call “opinions” has nothing to do with being popes or authority of the Church if it doesn’t contradict the Magisterium and the Bible.
For instance, if you read from your Bible that God thinks it’s good for people to be selfish, then you contradict the Church, and the Bible both. With Baptism, the Eucharist, commandments, evangelical counsels – it’s part of the teaching (moral or theological). But then there are minor details like should you focus more on prayer or helping the poor – that’s a matter of personal discernment, because we have different vocations. And we are all unique. Which way you decided to serve the Lord – through helping poor, or pro-life, or missionary, or raising a lot of kids for God – that’s up to you obviously, but morality and theology in case of good, holy witness, will be the same. Just read the lives of the saints and see for yourself.
I’m sure God has you where you are, and will lead you where He wants you to be, if only you will let yourself be led by Him. Even if it takes the rest of your life. Peace be with you.